So Pat, we were talking about how money and Texas politics really works. Would you care to elaborate?

Here is a perfect example. In October 2006 (a month before bill filing for the ‘07 session) about 35 to 40 leading businessmen in Texas put out an op ed piece (in the Dallas Morning News) about how we shouldn’t have any new bills on illegal immigration; all very, very wealthy political donors including Bob Perry of Houston and (El Paso’s) Woody Hunt. There were 24 such bills introduced into the Texas Legislature (during the ’07 session). Not one of them got to the floor. Craddick killed everyone. Now why would they kill 24 illegal immigration bills?

Because Bob Perry builds houses, Woody Hunt builds houses. Many of the other signers (of the op ed piece) maintain restaurants, run hotels and they needed the illegal aliens to do the work. (In contrast) Colorado passed such a bill; Tennessee passed such a bill; Oklahoma passed such a bill; Arizona passed such a bill.
So where were the illegal aliens (ending up in Texas) coming from? Not from the South but from the North, East and West. … They ran the illegal immigrants out of there and into Texas.

Our conversations jumps around considerably until we reach the subject of renewable energy in Texas. Pat brings the conversation back to his earlier point about how Texas politics really works.

Go look at a group called Rio Nuevo ... a group that is buying up water all over the state of Texas. People like (T.) Boone-Pickens now spending more on water rights that drilling leases. Oil is becoming a secondary, and what is going to be more important is water. Tom Craddick is making sure water laws are getting written the way they’re “supposed” to be written. I guarantee you because of Boone-Pickens and the amount of money (he) is spending on a great number of candidates, you’re probably going to see a number of bills introduced in the Texas Legislature that have to do with taxable income help if your in with the wind-energy lot.

Well, Pat you’ve given us the diagnosis. What’s the cure?

To be perfectly honest, it’s probably been going on since politics began in some way, shape or form. Congress has talked about campaign reform where they (the rich) are restricted to only $2,300 a year (but) then they can start all the 527s they want to, run all the ads they want to, and say and do what they want to.

Well, is this the Catholic in you ... that it all comes down to fallen human nature?

I don’t know whether that is necessarily Catholic. It’s the observation of an old fart. You can start out being the most idealistic person in the world. But, after a while, you start to get to the point where you say, “Wow, this is probably not the way to do things.”

Do you think that applies to Joe Moody? He’s been called idealistic. Will he have to change if he is elected?

He is a very idealistic guy. I think it’s a very wonderful quality.

Do you think that idealism will benefit El Paso if he gets elected?

The Legislature is one of those places where people go down to with a chip on their shoulder or a very high impression of themselves. Err, [laughs], it’s a great equalizer. It can make you very humble. If you think you are that great, you’re going to find out your not. I think that Joe, from that standpoint, is further ahead than Dee Margo.

Dee Margo has a very high opinion of himself and when you go to the Legislature as a freshman and you don’t even know where the bath rooms are yet, you don’t go down there telling people what you’re going to do. You’re going to go down there and find out that you’re going to do what you’re told.

But Margo has been traveling in these circles for a long time. Surely he knows in advance how that system works?

No he hasn’t got a clue. He is there for one reason and that is to vote for Tom Craddick (for speaker). Now, once that happens, we’ll see.

So you think it could be a give-and-take relationship between Craddick, Margo and El Paso?

Could be. But I doubt it. The problem is that he still comes from an area that votes 75 percent Democrat. So, what are they going to give him? He’s already doing what he was told to do, and that is to vote for Tom Craddick. Now when he does that, which is the first day of the session, they don’t need him anymore. You’ve got to get 76 votes (for speaker). That’s the only reason he’s there.

And, we’ll see if he (Craddick) can buy two more from El Paso. The rumor is that the money in town says we will provide you with three votes.

Where’s the money coming from?

It’s pretty common knowledge.

But Margo has maintained that he doesn’t have a relationship with Craddick.

Out of all the money Craddick has raised through the Stars over Texas (PAC), only two guys got the money. Margo and Kleinschmidt. Now, $25,000 (the amount Margo received), do you think that buys anything? That’s chump change. That’s what’s on top.

The tip of the Iceberg?

Sure ... Margo said in his advertising (during the primary race) that Pat Haggerty voted to give illegal aliens a driving license. That is an out-and-out lie. He said Pat Haggerty voted to put illegal aliens on the CHIP (Children’s Health Insurance Program) program. That is an out-and-out lie.

I was there (in the Legislature) 20 years. That’s 10 sessions. We introduce 6,000 bills every session. That’s the potential of 60,000 votes (that Haggerty could have cast in his political career). I’m sure when Margo was running his ads, he looked at all of them. Let’s say there were only 12,000. He couldn’t find anytime I voted against El Paso. Out of 12,000 votes you can find one that’s was wrong. …

Am I surprised he would say he has nothing to do with him (Craddick)? Absolutely I am not surprised. If a man will lie to get into office what kind of lies will he tell you when he is in office?

Can I quote you on that?

You can quote me on that

So where does that leave you in terms of the race?

It’s up to the people of El Paso not me.

Well, moving on to Moody, what do you think of all this “blog gate”? link

He’s 27 years old. If they had gone back and looked at what I said when I was 25, 26, 27, I would never have been elected in the first place … I certainly wouldn’t hold it against him… Look, if you’ve never made any dumb statements when you were 27, then vote for Dee Margo. If you did make a couple of dumb statements when you were 27, then vote for Joe Moody.

Do you have any advice for the winner?

Don’t forget who sent you there. … After 20 years, the only thing I can think about is all the things I didn’t do, all the things I could have done, should have done and didn’t do. There’s a lot of people that you help, a lot of people better off because you were there.

But there are many again that might have been better off, if you’d have done something else. You can be depressed thinking about it.

What it is (ultimately) supposed to be about is giving a shit about your district.

When did you move here?

1950. When I was 6 years old. It’s a fabulous town. I tell people all the time that when you’re here, you’d rather be anywhere else. And when you’re anywhere else you’d rather be here.

What did you learn about El Paso over those 20 years?

Wonderful bunch of people. … They gave me an opportunity to serve them for 20 years. I have all the gratitude in the world

This is a young man’s game. ... People your age (26 and ¾) and Joe Moody’s age should be getting into politics. It’s a major problem that we’re not getting young people involved in politics anymore. And when they do, we say they’re too young.

One final question Pat. Do you think Fort Bliss is good for El Paso?

From the standpoint that they’re building the amount of infrastructure out there, that they’re creating a lot of jobs, it’s all good. The fact that 60 percent of the people supposedly coming in here will be living on the local economy, that’s all good.

The fact is you’re also talking about a tremendous number of new students and their families, which is going to create a major problem for El Paso and IFA (Instructional Facilities) funding which means where going to have to have (for example) a whole lot more schools, a whole lot more teachers.

You cannot dump that on the local economy and say, “We’re going to put that on your property taxes.” There has got to be federal help. The state has got to come in and say there’s going to be IFA funding available. (Sen. Eliot) Shapleigh and I passed a bill that puts us to the top of the list. But, that’s an amount of money that is this small (pinches his fingers) when we need an amount that is this big (opens out his arms).

I will also point out to you that the values of property, because of what is going on, are going down. If that’s true, in order to maintain the same level of spending, the city is going to have to raise taxes a tremendous amount. (This is) because of all the new requirements for the new infrastructure that is coming in with Fort Bliss ... new policemen, new firemen and new this-and-that because of the fact that your increasing your population by another 40,000 people.
Where is the national program of housing that is going up in value to cover that cost? If the values are going down, then you going to have to double the amount of taxation in order to make up not only the difference that you’ve lost. But, the new money going to be required because of the increase you’re going to see in the population. That is going to be a major problem for this community.

You are going to see a lot of people say, “Screw it, I can go and live in Santa Teresa and pay a fifth of the taxes I’m paying in El Paso. Why should I live here?”